Speak the truth even if your voice shakes! The place for Scribes,Vibes and Tribes of the 21st Century A New Black Renaissance!
Saturday, 31 December 2011
The music evolution will not be Terrorised.
The music of the African Diasporic evolution will not be terrorised.
The music evolution will not be brought to you by "Band on the box"
The evolution will not give you tunes from a Fake Real book that's really a Real fake book full of incorrect chords, "Mell oh Dear", suspect "Ah My knees",and enough cheesy "Churn arounds" to stink out Jam sessions that are no more than Ego sessions full of Jam and no session musicians!
Sessions where general waffling and playing at a beat with never ending chorus after chorus of Meandering cut and paste cliched Solos lifted from inane Harmonic tags that never resolve their Argumentative fifths or diminished responsibilities haunt the very stages that should be occupied by real musicians but are so loved by lazy Corporate institutionalised conservatory dicks.
No The music evolution will not be terrorised.
The music evolution will not be brought to you by the Big J**z awards, the Small J**z awards, The Governments J**z awards or the "NO-BRO" Awards because that’s all too confusing, patronizing and fake, for true awards resonate within your soul and its origins are based in fact and DNA all the way, from the musical strands of Mother Africa's diaspora!
Neither will the music Evolution feature some lame bands distorting Standards, either by some "Kind of Grey" Miles Davis tribute band, a fifties black Exotica act, or a modern day Minstrel Show.
The music evolution will not even be better with a skin teeth smile or a history denial.
The music evolution will never benefit from drop out failures hiding from other music forms that they did not get together, No it's not good "enough for J***" and will never will be good enough for life,so get your s**t correct!
The music evolution will never benefit from drop out failures hiding from other music forms that they did not get together, No it's not good "enough for J***" and will never will be good enough for life,so get your s**t correct!
The evolution will not by sponsored by Confused.com or a Cd Rom, or a pretty girl dancing with a Pom Pom.Put away your Smoke and mirrors, we know where your coming from!
The music evolution WILL put you on the spot.
It will not give you a hiding place for a sob story, from a vocalist without a soul.
The music evolution will not have bands with the usual names like quartet,quintet,sextet, Horny Riff & the Reeds or Trumpet & the Mouthpieces, no need even for a Sax Appeal because we are not, all in this together!
The music evolution will not stop snobs from wanting to dictate to musicians what they want to hear but it will mean that musicians can now let those disses and wishes fall on deaf ears.
Because this music evolution will not be terrorised, Brother.
The real music evolution will not exclude or place a glass ceiling on real talent or ambitions because of the colour of your skin or the non content of your wallet.You will no longer hear or feel that The Token spot has been taken because enmasse our talent will out! There aignt no stopping us now!
There will be no need for photos of you smiling with famous players in numerous faux J**z magazines,Fad magazines or Sad Magazines,nobody patting you on the back, No A & R men banging on your door or hanging around aimlessly outside recording studios, in clubs, pubs or bars, pushing contracts in your hands like lottery tickets only if there are clauses to trick you & your family and your families family, and their families family, for ever and ever, yes that’s right, forever and ever ever.
There'll be no more Slaving you a copy from the the Masters tapes that they own or need for you to slip a copy of your album under the door of a festival promoter.
Because it's time you made your own festival.
NO, for The music evolution will not be terrorised.
There will be no radio shows playing dry objectionable Elevator music while using the J**z word to fool the public into buying sad arse music from artists that should never see the light of day!
There will be no hiding place for Journalists who only recommend or write for a free meal ticket form an old boys club or network that just keeps the status quo. no need to describe any Artists as a young Turk, a young gun, or a 40 year old man using the term up and coming, because by that age they should of up and went somewhere!
There will be no musician described as sounding like Miles,Coltrane,Hancock,Brecker, Jarrett or making a living out of repeating other peoples solos, music, sound or personality and claiming it as there own!
There will be no need for musicians with fake American accents pretending to be some hip cat or other for they should be run out of town, this isn’t 1940s Harlem, grow up! There will be no musicians jumping up and down on stage while grinning like Uncle Toms or rolling their eyes in mock Mammy type homage.
F**k you backward looking Bamboozled clown its been way too long that you have held the real Brothers down!!
F**k you backward looking Bamboozled clown its been way too long that you have held the real Brothers down!!
Because now is the time for true musicians to step forward and reclaim the stage. To run their own clubs to teach the real theory, history of music, to speak of all the history but not to put all music into a 2,5.1 situation to make their usual turnarounds. To bring some harmony where there is none, To show true melodic invention. To know when to shut up and when to be heard!
Because now the time is up for those who held the keys to the doors of opportunity and public responsibility to give it up, for their selfish solos have been heard for way too long,So long that they can't even remember the story of the song.
Audiences will not care that the music isn’t wrapped in a neat package, Audiences will care because the music is real,the music is breathing,so your music will have to speak to them because it needs to resonate within their soul.
Audiences will not care that the music isn’t wrapped in a neat package, Audiences will care because the music is real,the music is breathing,so your music will have to speak to them because it needs to resonate within their soul.
Until then, we will all be in life’s streets looking for a brighter day.
The music evolution will not be televised.
Because the evolution will not be terrorised,
WILL not be terrorised, WILL NOT BE TERRORISED.
The music evolution will not be on Playback;
The music evolution will be fresh,live,vibrant,relevant and current.
Friday, 30 December 2011
Thursday, 29 December 2011
Wednesday, 28 December 2011
Gov. Fashola Converts Late Afro Beat King, Fela Anikulapo Kuti's Home Into Museum
... project priority of ministry of tourism. Governor Babatunde Raji Fashola is set to transform the abode of late music Icon, Fela Anikulapo Kuti into a state museum.Information made available revealed that this development is an initiative of the Lagos State Ministry of Tourism.
Sources claimed that the Commissioner, Holloway Oladisun led crew had made a proposal to the government on the Issue and the executive approved.Talks between the ministry's crew and the family of the late musical legend, towards perfecting a mutually beneficiary formulae in achieving this goal are on.
Yeni Kuti, eldest daughter of the late phenomenon and chief executor of her father's estate is said to be officially representing family interest in the move.
She is said to have the mandate of other members of the family.
Investigations revealed that the proposed state museum will parade 'an appreciable numbers of personal and public objects owned by the late musician, ranging from his clothes to his musical instruments. His famous Saxophone is earmarked to occupy a conspicuous place of pride in the arrangement.
Sources claimed that the Commissioner, Holloway Oladisun led crew had made a proposal to the government on the Issue and the executive approved.Talks between the ministry's crew and the family of the late musical legend, towards perfecting a mutually beneficiary formulae in achieving this goal are on.
Yeni Kuti, eldest daughter of the late phenomenon and chief executor of her father's estate is said to be officially representing family interest in the move.
She is said to have the mandate of other members of the family.
Investigations revealed that the proposed state museum will parade 'an appreciable numbers of personal and public objects owned by the late musician, ranging from his clothes to his musical instruments. His famous Saxophone is earmarked to occupy a conspicuous place of pride in the arrangement.
According to an insider ' the aim is to preserve and celebrate the master musician in a timeless manner- in a better and more respectable way than others have done. Informants confirmed this one of an array of projects the tourism ministry crew have lined up to open up the tourist market in the state. The iconic musician was recently the subject of world attention with a broadway production that relived his life.The cost implication of the proposed 'Fela Museum' is yet to be ascertained at press time.
www.societynowng.com
www.societynowng.com
Jazz great Sonny Rollins interviewed in 2011 aged 81
The jazz great—and recently named 2011 Kennedy Center Honors recipient—talks about his new album “Road Shows, Vol. 2″ and explains why, at age 81, he still practices every day.
At age 81, Sonny Rollins is still a powerful jazz presence. The two-time Grammy winner was recently named a 2011 Kennedy Center Honors recipient and, earlier this year, received the Medal of Arts—America's highest honor for artistic excellence. Rollins grew up in Harlem and discovered the sax in his teens. Before age 20, he'd worked and recorded with some of the greats, including Miles Davis, and was mentored by Thelonious Monk. He made his first major recording in '53 and now releases his music on his own label, including his latest, “Road Shows, Vol. 2.”
TRANSCRIPT
Tavis: Pleased and honored to welcome Sonny Rollins to this program. The iconic jazz saxophonist was recently named, as you may know, a Kennedy Center honoree for this year, a much deserved and extremely high honor.
He’s also out with a new project called “Sonny Rollins Road Shows, Vol. 2″. There you see the cover. Sonny Rollins, an honor to have you on this program.
Sonny Rollins: Thank you very much. It’s an honor to finally get a chance to meet you and be on the show. I watch it, so I’m with you.
Tavis: Well, trust me. I’ve been waiting on this a long time, so I’m glad that we finally got a chance to work this out. I want to start with a clip here of something that you said to an interviewer about 20 years ago, maybe 1986, somewhere along there. You may remember this, maybe not. Take a look at this monitor.
Rollins: “I don’t feel I’m the greatest anything. I still feel I’m a developing musician. So as far as I’m concerned, I’m still proving it to myself all the time.”
Tavis: Wow. That was ’86. You still feel that same way?
Rollins: Exactly, exactly the same way.
Tavis: You think at 81 now, you’re still getting better? You’re still trying to prove something to yourself all these years later?
Rollins: Well, you know, music is one of these things which, fortunately, it’s no [unintelligible] music. If you were the driver person that can absorb it, it’s there to keep doing more. I’m that driver person. I wanted to do more. Because, look, I’ve been with some great, great musicians, man, and I know what this greatness is.
I heard great musicians who’ve come and gone. I want to get there. I don’t think I’m there yet, see, so I’m still practicing every day and I’m still composing. I’m in it. I’m not sitting back playing golf, man. That’s not my style.
Tavis: To your point of practicing every day, I believe in practice, but when you’re the master of this, what you practicing for every day? I’m told that you practice for hours, not even for minutes, but for hours every day.
Rollins: I try to at least practice for two hours and more if I have the strength and the stamina.
Tavis: Right.
Rollins: See, jazz is something which is so expansive. You see, this is why I’m so lucky. Jazz is not something that you can put a book, okay, practice, that’s my lesson. No, jazz goes on and on. You learn one thing and then, hey, here’s something else. You get to [unintelligible] and there’s something else. This is why jazz is America’s classical music and the great music that it is because there is no end, see?
Miles used to say about some great musicians, I’d be talking and I’d just say, well, how about this guy? Miles would say, yeah, but he’s cliché. In other words, he’s great, but he plays the same thing all the time. It’s a great thing, but it’s the same. We don’t have to do that. A jazz musician can be different all the time. So that’s the kind of stuff I’m striving for, man.
Tavis: In your grand career, you’ve taken two sabbaticals; one in the late ’50s, one in ’66 or so, but two sabbaticals you’ve taken. The first one really strikes me as interesting because you were at the top of your game. You still are, but at that point being heralded all around the world as the man. And from ’59 to ”61 or so, you just disappear. You take a sabbatical. Why’d you do that?
Rollins: Because, Tavis, I believe in myself inside. I was being told by everybody, oh, Sonny, you the man. Don’t go away. People will forget about you, see? But something inside me was saying, no, Sonny, you got to improve, man. You got Coltrane and Ornette Coleman and these boys coming up. You’ve got to get your stuff together.
I always been a practicer, so I said, look, I’m going to go what I feel I have to do, which is to practice my horn. I’ll get away if that’s what I got to do, which is what I had to do, just get away from the scene completely, and do what something inside of me tell me to do.
See, that’s what I’m most proud of, Tavis, in my whole life, that I did something that something inside of me tell me to do regardless of what everybody was saying. “Oh, he’s great” don’t mean nothing. I have to know that.
Tavis: How difficult, Sonny Rollins, is it to do that, to go your own way, to do something different and better when everybody else says what you’re doing is already okay?
Rollins: It’s not that difficult. You have to do it because, if you don’t do it, your life is going to be shortchanged. You’re shortchanging yourself if you listen to what people are talking about. So, yeah, it might be a little hard.
I was lucky. My old lady was working. She was able to work while I was, you know, on sabbatical. But you got to do it. I don’t care what it takes. Get right with yourself. That’s what life is about. The rest of it don’t mean nothing. Get right with yourself.
Tavis: I like that. I like that, Sonny Rollins. You said your old lady. I will call her your wife [laugh] of 50 years of being together. She passed away, sadly, in 2004.
Rollins: That’s correct.
Tavis: When you said that you took a sabbatical a couple of times and she was the breadwinner then, how important was it for you all those years to have that kind of partner, that kind of helper, that allowed you to pursue your craft and what was it about her that allowed her to be understanding enough to let you go the way that you had to go to get right with yourself?
Rollins: Well, my wife was a brilliant woman. My wife used to actually run the chemistry department at the University of Chicago. She was working for all these professors, sleeping and drunk and stuff, and she had to do the work. But my wife was a brilliant woman, so that’s why she married me. That’s a joke [laugh].
So she knew how to deal in life. She realized, yeah, the man has got to work. Sonny’s got to get himself together for our whole happiness, for our relationship, and she did that and she would have done it. I had to say, okay, it’s time to come back now, Sonny, because actually I was having a ball just practicing, but then I realized, wait a minute. Let me get back out there.
Tavis: What did you learn or what do you recall or take away from both times when you reentered the stage, when you went back on the stage? What do you recall about the reentrance?
Rollins: Well, I’ll tell you this, Tavis. When I came back in 1961, I think, a lot of people said, oh, gee, man, this cat sounds the same way he did before. What’s the difference? Why’d you go away?
Well, part of that was a little bit of truth to that, but it didn’t get to the point that I had to satisfy myself. I had to satisfy myself that I was better, and you can’t prove that you’re better at one night. It’s something that comes as you go through life.
So I knew that I was better. I was able to have the self-confidence to get back out here, see. So I remember that the first time. Cats said, gee, why’d you go to [unintelligible], man? You sounded the same when you went away.
But you have to know yourself. See, this is the whole thing in life. You have to know yourself. Never mind what people say. Do you know what you want? Do you know who you are? Do you know who the man in the mirror is? That’s what it’s about. The rest of it doesn’t mean diddly.
Tavis: I’ll take that. Especially right about now, I’ll take that from Sonny Rollins. You mentioned your friend, Ornette Coleman, a few minutes ago. If ever there were a classic piece on this project, a 21 or 22-minute piece with you and Ornette Coleman, it is, as we say, the bomb diggity. It’s a cool piece.
When you’re in a moment, because jazz is so fluid, to your point earlier, when you’re in a moment and you’re putting down a piece with a guy like Ornette Coleman and the piece is going 20, 21 minutes, I know I can’t inhabit your body or your brain – I wish I could – but what’s happening inside of you in that moment that makes that piece just run and run and run and, when it’s done, you’ve worn the audience out with that?
Rollins: Well, you know, there used to be the great Lionel Hampton. You know Lionel Hampton?
Tavis: Absolutely.
Rollins: Well, I know Hampton when he was in his 80′s or 90′s or whatever. They had to wheel Lionel Hampton up to the bandstand. You know, they’d get him up. Once he got on that stage, he was like 19. He would be up there, man, and the guys would have to say, “Okay, Ham, it’s time to get up” and he’s into it.
So you get consumed with the spirit, man. When I play like that, I got a bass player that used to have to tell me, “Sonny, we’ve been playing three hours, man.”
Tavis: They only paid us for an hour and a half [laugh].
Rollins: Something like that, yeah. So you get consumed with the spirit. Nothing else matters but creating that music, see? That’s a great privilege. That’s a great honor. I mean, it’s prayerful. I get up there and I’m not thinking about no, oh, you got one set and you got 30 minutes. I’m not thinking like that, see.
Tavis: I want to ask how it feels to be one of the last great standing. I was so pleased when I heard the news of the Kennedy Center honor because you so deserve it.
Rollins: Thank you.
Tavis: But you’re one of only four guys still standing who are in that great photo. We all remember the great day in Harlem in 1958, that great jazz photo – We got a copy here – before you all left. How does it feel to be on the last great standing from that photo that had everybody who was anybody in it on the same day in Harlem?
Rollins: Right, right. Well, there was a time, Tavis, when I looked at that photo and thought more like people would think, oh, gee, he’s gone and he’s gone and he’s gone and he’s gone, and, gee, how many are left? I reached 80 years old and this is hard to explain, but you don’t think like that anymore.
In other words, I don’t want to say I believe in life after death because hear, oh, life after, but there’s something bigger than the fact that we were all together on that day and we’re not there now, according to what in this life we look at. There’s something bigger than that.
I’m part of that scene. I’m privileged to be part of that scene with those people. That meant something to be there. It means something now. Those guys supposedly are not here, but the spirit of that picture is here.
The spirit of that picture is there and, like the spirit of jazz, people say, oh, jazz is dead. Every ten years, you hear, oh, jazz is dead. Well, you can’t kill jazz, see? Jazz is not a body. Jazz is a spirit. You can’t kill jazz, see? So that picture, those people, the bodies are dead, but the spirit is there, man.
Tavis: When you’re on stage playing and that spirit hits you, do you feel those guys, their presence with you, the greats you played with, your friend Charlie Parker and Miles Davis? You played with all of them and they had the honor of playing with you. You feel that spirit when you’re on stage?
Rollins: Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. In fact, there was one great trumpet player, one of the great musicians that a lot of people don’t know of, Clifford Brown, trumpet player. He died tragically in an accident.
After he died and I’d be playing, I used to channel him. I’d say, “Clifford, where do I go now, man? Come on, help me.” I’d ask him that and he would do it. I’d feel better about what I was playing after I’d call him.
After a while, Tavis, I stopped that because he’s gone on to better things. He’s gone on to a different realm now. Let him bestow his soul life. His soul has to go better places than back here where we are.
So I stopped that, but I did that for a while and I still think about it all. I still think about Coltrane and Monk, all those cats here. I mean, I dream about them cats at times. But as I said, it’s the spirit, man. I’m a blessed cat to have played with these people, man. You know, Dizzy Gillespie and Bud Powell and Monk and Charlie Parker and Miles Davis.
I mean, these are the real people that were sent here to create this music or keep the music going, see? It’s a great privilege. I’m just trying to make sure that I keep it as much as I can while I’m here. So you say why am I practicing every day? That’s why I’m practicing every day.
Tavis: You’ve been doing this for so long now. Take me back to the very beginning. How did you settle on the sax and you didn’t start on the tenor sax?
Rollins: Well, you know, Tavis, I was born in Harlem and I used to hear all kinds of music in Harlem in 1930, every kind of music. So I became an aficionado of a guy named Lewis Jordan. Now Lewis Jordan was a guy that you could call a rhythm and blues guy, you know.
He was even a guy that was a sort of an entertainer. He used to sort of make jokes on the stage like Fats Waller in a way. But, oh, man, Lewis Jordan was my man, you know. He had a five-piece band and that was really – so I got mother got me a second-hand alto saxophone and, once I got that horn, I’d go in the bedroom and I’d be in there all day.
My mother would have to say, “Come on, Sonny. Come on out and eat supper.” I was in my reverie then, see? That’s from when I was seven or eight years old. But I’ll tell you something, Tavis. At that age, I knew that I would be a prominent musician when I was that young.
Tavis: How’d you know that at so young?
Rollins: I felt it.
Tavis: Right.
Rollins: I felt that this is your life, man. This is you.
Tavis: But you’re basically self-taught, though.
Rollins: Basically self-taught, basically self-taught.
Tavis: That’s a lot of confidence to know at seven when you ain’t got nobody teaching you nothing, I’m gonna be a prominent musician.
Rollins: Well, that’s right.
Tavis: Yeah, I love that.
Rollins: That’s why I call myself a primitive because nobody taught me nothing. I just went in the bedroom and started blowing. I didn’t know what it sounded like. Today, you might say, well, what is that boy doing? [Laugh] But I was content.
I was in my reverie, see? I knew at that time, yeah, man, this is your life. This is what you’re going to do, and it was beautiful because I couldn’t deviate from that, see? I’m still happy today playing just like I was when I was seven.
Tavis: This new project, “Road Shows, Vol. 2″, has some stuff recorded live at The Beacon – of course, one of my favorite venues in New York City – at The Beacon recorded on the occasion of your 80th birthday.
There’s some stuff at the top and at the bottom, though, of the CD recorded in Japan. Your assessment of the appreciation or lack thereof for this American art form around the world that you’ve traveled so many times?
Rollins: Well, you know, Tavis, and I hope your audience knows, that jazz is a world music, see. It’s claimed right out of here, but everybody from Mongolia to Manchuria to Manhattan, I mean, the whole world understands and appreciates jazz as a world music. We didn’t have to make them like they heard and say, yeah, that’s classic, but, yeah, we love that.
It’s taken America a little longer because of social and political reasons and all that to come into jazz the way other people did. They didn’t have no barriers, no reason not to like jazz, so they liked jazz right away. But it’s here now and the whole world likes jazz and no way of denying that. This is a world music.
This is America’s classical music, man. I’m not saying that because of me. I’m just a little part of it. This is America’s classical music and people all over the world understand that this is it. Jazz is the thing, man.
Tavis: That’s because you’re the chief ambassador of it around the world.
Rollins: Well, okay. You’re putting a lot on me there [laugh].
Tavis: Which leads me to ask how it felt for you when you heard the news that you were being honored this year as one of the Kennedy Center honorees? As my grandmother would say, Big Mama, “That’s high cotton.”
Rollins: Yeah, yeah. Well, I know, and a lot of people say, oh, man, he’s in high cotton now. But in a way, it’s not me, Tavis. It’s the people that came before me, see.
When I accept this honor, it’s for Count Basie who got one, it’s for Duke Ellington who didn’t get one, it’s for Lester Young who didn’t get one, it’s for John Coltrane who didn’t get one, Thelonious Monk who didn’t get one.
So I’m standing up there and I say thank you for this honor. Thank you, I appreciate it. But I understand that I’m them. That’s who we’re talking about, this music now, see. And I appreciate it not for me, for everybody that bled and died and suffered and still made this great music come about.
Tavis: You have such a grateful spirit.
Rollins: Well, thank you for saying that.
Tavis: I’m just making an observation. You have a very grateful spirit, a kind and gentle grateful spirit.
Rollins: Thank you, man. Well, I’ve been through a lot, man, you know. I’ve been through a lot of stuff, man. I’m 81. I didn’t know I would get here, but I made it. But thank you for that. I try to be that way. I mean, I try to be.
Tavis: How much of the stuff that you went through, the hard stuff that you endured, going to prison and then the heroin addiction for a while, how much of the hard stuff helped bring about that humanity, that humility, that grateful nature that you have?
Rollins: Well, I’m lucky that I was able to get out of that valley of the shadow of death, you know. I was lucky because there were so many great young guys that couldn’t get through that. So I was lucky.
Again, you ask me how did I know that I was gonna be prominent at seven years old? Well, the same thing said no. Go on, keep going on. But I am grateful, but, yeah, I paid a lot of dues, man. As a matter of fact, I’m still paying dues even though I’m in the high cotton [laugh].
Tavis: Well, I’m glad you paid me a visit tonight. I don’t know about your dues paying, but I’m glad you paid me a visit. I was just sitting here thinking how musical this conversation was and Sonny didn’t play nothing, didn’t pull out a horn to play nothing. Yet the conversation was as musical and as lyrical and as genius as listening to him do a three-hour show on his horn.
I’m just delighted and tickled to be sitting across from this legend, this icon, Sonny Rollins, honored this year – later, that is – with the Kennedy Center Honor for the year 2011. The latest project from this master is called “Sonny Rollins Road Shows, Vol. 2″. Sonny Rollins, my delight, my absolute delight, to have you on this program.
Rollins: It’s my delight. I want to say to you, keep on because I’m a fan of yours too.
Tavis: Yeah, but you can’t tell me nothing now [laugh].
Transcript from PBS
Saturday, 24 December 2011
Friday, 23 December 2011
Thursday, 22 December 2011
To Be African: Ode to Contrived Misery
Father, Fighter, Lover
To Be African: Ode to Contrived Misery
by Ikhide R. Ikheloa
The term African is becoming a burden, a pejorative used to describe certain miserable conditions of the physical and psychological. Case in point: Claudine Gay, writing in the Root seems to object to her son being called African in her essay, My Son’s Called African and I’m Upset; Why? She is black. She is not the only one by the way; the great Tiger Woods once brushed aside that label by glibly referring to himself as Cablinasian, whatever that means. He openly admits that being called African-American bothers him. I doubt that he has ever visited a black-themed event. His father is black. Gay’s essay has understandably caused quite a stir in those watering holes inhabited by African intellectuals. The term “African” is under siege as people are now realizing that it is becoming proxy for everything Africans are not and should not be. By the way, it seems these days that the (in)action of just one individual is enough to draw sweeping generalizations about an entire continent of millions of individually unique people. Westerners visit remote parts of Africa and write breathless and patronizing essays about “Africa.” Henning Mankell has an essay in the New York Times, In Africa, the Art of Listening, which makes the baffling and maddening point that his observations about life on a park bench somewhere in Mozambique reflect life everywhere in Africa.
African intellectuals for various compelling reasons are now flung and scattered amongst the cafes of Europe and the Americas where they pontificate about the condition that is Africa and yell at the white man for every perceived slight on Africa and Africans. We have every reason to fume (yes, I am a card-carrying member of that tribe of whiners). To be African is to be associated with everything objectionable – war, disease, crime, corruption, neediness and that ever-nagging suspicion in the minds of even the most liberal Westerners that we are somehow sub-human. It is a perplexing and infuriating situation that has kept African intellectuals on the defensive. In America for example, immigration is a huge and vexing issue; an issue that was considered ho-hum until the color of immigration became brown. Native Americans remember painfully that the new America is indeed a land of immigrants. Today, immigrants of color are being chased from pillar to post for doing exactly what the “founders” of America did eons ago. In the classrooms there is the persistent debate about closing the achievement gap in academic achievement among races and ethnicities. When leaders are talking about the gap, guess who they are glaring at? Children of the poor, children of the black and brown. In their eyes, African Americans and Africans are parked squarely in the wrong end of the Bell Curve.
Africans have every reason to be upset. However, it is helpful to focus on why things are the way they are. In Nigeria for example, the intellectual, religious and political elite have colluded to make a mockery of any and every thing that a people stand for. This they have done using pretend-processes and pretend-structures for self-serving ends. In Nigeria, the new Christianity is the new alcoholism ravaging the already dispossessed daily. Watch this video and reflect upon the caricature nation that Nigeria is fast becoming. Watch this disturbing video of abuse of young congregants in a church. Thieving pastors have rushed whoosh into a yawning vacuum that was created by generations of failed leaders. These new thieves are now raking in millions from their own self-serving failure to lead. We are muttering to ourselves and our people are chanting themselves to lunacy and irrelevance. Thanks to succeeding regimes of irresponsible ASUU stalwarts and government kleptocrats many of our universities would be shut down today in the West if they were poultry farms. The looting goes on unabated and the funds are used to create safe havens for the elite and their overfed families at home and abroad. Any Westerner coming to visit Nigeria today would be forgiven for taking one look and wanting to just pee on the whole damn place. In America, racial and ethnic demographic data are gleefully used by leaders to justify funding for the classroom. Do not get me wrong; the bulk of these funds have been incredibly crucial in making huge positive changes in the lives of all children in the classroom. However, it has come at a cost. Thanks to this deficit-model approach of viewing our humanity, children of African descent are looked upon as issues-laden, disrespected by those in authority. The child of color grows up to believe that that a police officer is not a friend. The feeling is mutual. But then, I know many Africans in the West who boast with pride that they live in white neighborhoods. The self-loathing is real and it comes at a cost. In these neighborhoods Africans are routinely ignored, humored and patronized by the majority-white neighbors. Any wonder children grow up resenting the label, African?
Yes, we must also reflect on our role in the creation of this pejorative. Many of our African experts in history, world renowned scholars have devoted their muscular talents to penning exotic hagiographies about a mythical place called Africa. Any attempt to offer a different perspective is met with ridicule and opprobrium. I am a huge fan of African literature; these are exciting times to be a reader, thanks to the hard work of many talented writers of African extraction and I will go to my grave clutching an African novel, yes. However, this genre of literature called “African literature” is in danger of being stereotyped as ghetto lit, mostly devoted to celebrating exclusively exotica – war, disease, crime, etc. There is no balance to these stories, instead to the extent that they present only the single story (apologies, Chimamanda Adichie) they distort the history of our challenged continent. This is especially an important point since it is not clear to me that African historians are actively doing the hard work and research of documenting and sharing with the world the sum total of Africa’s history.
“African writers” are routinely herded into Western retreats and conferences by condescending, patronizing liberals where they regale the world with tales of woe, gloom and doom. Their books and short stories are mostly their opinions about Africa, nothing more. Increasingly and alarmingly, these book readings, speeches, and so on are based on erroneous information – and outright fabrications for profit as we now know with the celebrated writer Chris Abani. With their powerful words (these are ordinarily good writers) they have written literally into concrete eternity, a hugely distorted and negative history of Africa. Using Abani as a case study I have previously tried to explain how contemporary African literature may be distorting African history. The writer Kennedy Emetulu has a long piece here meticulously detailing Abani’s dark history of lying for profit and more importantly distorting history in the process. Here is a profound passage in the essay:
“To understand the effect of Abani’s lies and how much damage he has done to our national history and to our psyche as a people, while making blood money from it and acquiring fame for himself, let’s just consider one of his poems from his Kalakuta Republic, Ode to Joy. We are choosing this poem, because it is one of his works that he swears to be an eyewitness account of the suffering and experience he went through in Kirikiri Maximum Security Prison. It is the poem that canonized him in the literary hall of fame in the West and had laureates like Harold Pinter gushing about its stark frankness and so on. Indeed, it is the singular most popular of his poems. Personally, reading the poem does nothing for me; but until one understands the devious cultural mind-reading underneath it and the purpose Abani used it to serve and the purpose it serves its promoters in the West, one may think it’s just an innocent poem by a young African writer.”
“Today, that poem is emblazoned in the city centre of Leiden, the sixth largest city in Netherlands where it is being ‘celebrated’. Leiden is an old historical city located on the Old Rhine, twenty kilometres from The Hague and 40 kilometres from Amsterdam. It has one of the oldest and most prestigious universities in Europe, the Leiden University, established in 1575. Its importance as a learning and cultural centre in Europe is further emphasized by the fact that the city is twinned with Oxford, the location of the oldest university in England.”
Read Leiden’s Wall of Shame here and see how every day writers like Abani collaborate with the West in canonizing the term “African” in the concrete walls and minds of the West. You can be sure of one thing; that wall will never come down. A big fat lie has now come to represent Africa thanks to the ghetto literature espoused by Abani et al (there are many like him by the way). Before we start throwing stones at the likes of Claudine Gay, we should first look into ourselves to see and confront that which ails us. We may be our own worst enemy. As intellectuals and self-appointed priests of probity and justice, we must police ourselves; otherwise we lack the moral authority to yell at a policeman for furtively collecting crumbs as bribes.
African intellectuals for various compelling reasons are now flung and scattered amongst the cafes of Europe and the Americas where they pontificate about the condition that is Africa and yell at the white man for every perceived slight on Africa and Africans. We have every reason to fume (yes, I am a card-carrying member of that tribe of whiners). To be African is to be associated with everything objectionable – war, disease, crime, corruption, neediness and that ever-nagging suspicion in the minds of even the most liberal Westerners that we are somehow sub-human. It is a perplexing and infuriating situation that has kept African intellectuals on the defensive. In America for example, immigration is a huge and vexing issue; an issue that was considered ho-hum until the color of immigration became brown. Native Americans remember painfully that the new America is indeed a land of immigrants. Today, immigrants of color are being chased from pillar to post for doing exactly what the “founders” of America did eons ago. In the classrooms there is the persistent debate about closing the achievement gap in academic achievement among races and ethnicities. When leaders are talking about the gap, guess who they are glaring at? Children of the poor, children of the black and brown. In their eyes, African Americans and Africans are parked squarely in the wrong end of the Bell Curve.
Africans have every reason to be upset. However, it is helpful to focus on why things are the way they are. In Nigeria for example, the intellectual, religious and political elite have colluded to make a mockery of any and every thing that a people stand for. This they have done using pretend-processes and pretend-structures for self-serving ends. In Nigeria, the new Christianity is the new alcoholism ravaging the already dispossessed daily. Watch this video and reflect upon the caricature nation that Nigeria is fast becoming. Watch this disturbing video of abuse of young congregants in a church. Thieving pastors have rushed whoosh into a yawning vacuum that was created by generations of failed leaders. These new thieves are now raking in millions from their own self-serving failure to lead. We are muttering to ourselves and our people are chanting themselves to lunacy and irrelevance. Thanks to succeeding regimes of irresponsible ASUU stalwarts and government kleptocrats many of our universities would be shut down today in the West if they were poultry farms. The looting goes on unabated and the funds are used to create safe havens for the elite and their overfed families at home and abroad. Any Westerner coming to visit Nigeria today would be forgiven for taking one look and wanting to just pee on the whole damn place. In America, racial and ethnic demographic data are gleefully used by leaders to justify funding for the classroom. Do not get me wrong; the bulk of these funds have been incredibly crucial in making huge positive changes in the lives of all children in the classroom. However, it has come at a cost. Thanks to this deficit-model approach of viewing our humanity, children of African descent are looked upon as issues-laden, disrespected by those in authority. The child of color grows up to believe that that a police officer is not a friend. The feeling is mutual. But then, I know many Africans in the West who boast with pride that they live in white neighborhoods. The self-loathing is real and it comes at a cost. In these neighborhoods Africans are routinely ignored, humored and patronized by the majority-white neighbors. Any wonder children grow up resenting the label, African?
Yes, we must also reflect on our role in the creation of this pejorative. Many of our African experts in history, world renowned scholars have devoted their muscular talents to penning exotic hagiographies about a mythical place called Africa. Any attempt to offer a different perspective is met with ridicule and opprobrium. I am a huge fan of African literature; these are exciting times to be a reader, thanks to the hard work of many talented writers of African extraction and I will go to my grave clutching an African novel, yes. However, this genre of literature called “African literature” is in danger of being stereotyped as ghetto lit, mostly devoted to celebrating exclusively exotica – war, disease, crime, etc. There is no balance to these stories, instead to the extent that they present only the single story (apologies, Chimamanda Adichie) they distort the history of our challenged continent. This is especially an important point since it is not clear to me that African historians are actively doing the hard work and research of documenting and sharing with the world the sum total of Africa’s history.
“African writers” are routinely herded into Western retreats and conferences by condescending, patronizing liberals where they regale the world with tales of woe, gloom and doom. Their books and short stories are mostly their opinions about Africa, nothing more. Increasingly and alarmingly, these book readings, speeches, and so on are based on erroneous information – and outright fabrications for profit as we now know with the celebrated writer Chris Abani. With their powerful words (these are ordinarily good writers) they have written literally into concrete eternity, a hugely distorted and negative history of Africa. Using Abani as a case study I have previously tried to explain how contemporary African literature may be distorting African history. The writer Kennedy Emetulu has a long piece here meticulously detailing Abani’s dark history of lying for profit and more importantly distorting history in the process. Here is a profound passage in the essay:
“To understand the effect of Abani’s lies and how much damage he has done to our national history and to our psyche as a people, while making blood money from it and acquiring fame for himself, let’s just consider one of his poems from his Kalakuta Republic, Ode to Joy. We are choosing this poem, because it is one of his works that he swears to be an eyewitness account of the suffering and experience he went through in Kirikiri Maximum Security Prison. It is the poem that canonized him in the literary hall of fame in the West and had laureates like Harold Pinter gushing about its stark frankness and so on. Indeed, it is the singular most popular of his poems. Personally, reading the poem does nothing for me; but until one understands the devious cultural mind-reading underneath it and the purpose Abani used it to serve and the purpose it serves its promoters in the West, one may think it’s just an innocent poem by a young African writer.”
“Today, that poem is emblazoned in the city centre of Leiden, the sixth largest city in Netherlands where it is being ‘celebrated’. Leiden is an old historical city located on the Old Rhine, twenty kilometres from The Hague and 40 kilometres from Amsterdam. It has one of the oldest and most prestigious universities in Europe, the Leiden University, established in 1575. Its importance as a learning and cultural centre in Europe is further emphasized by the fact that the city is twinned with Oxford, the location of the oldest university in England.”
Read Leiden’s Wall of Shame here and see how every day writers like Abani collaborate with the West in canonizing the term “African” in the concrete walls and minds of the West. You can be sure of one thing; that wall will never come down. A big fat lie has now come to represent Africa thanks to the ghetto literature espoused by Abani et al (there are many like him by the way). Before we start throwing stones at the likes of Claudine Gay, we should first look into ourselves to see and confront that which ails us. We may be our own worst enemy. As intellectuals and self-appointed priests of probity and justice, we must police ourselves; otherwise we lack the moral authority to yell at a policeman for furtively collecting crumbs as bribes.
An interview with Pianist Cecil Taylor
Pianist-composer Cecil Taylor is internationally known for the brilliance and audacious beauty of his music. He has recorded dozens of albums as a solo performer and with various ensembles over a period spanning five decades. He is currently working with a large ensemble called Phthongos. He has incorporated poetry into his work in a number of ways over the years; in 1991 Leo Records released Chinampas, a recording which presents his poetry accompanied by multi-instrumental improvisations. The following interview, conducted by Chris Funkhouser, took place at Mr. Taylor's home in Brooklyn on September 3, 1994.
Funkhouser: Let's explore the literary side of the work that you do. With the exceptions of people like Sun Ra, Archie Shepp, and a few others, there aren't many jazz players who choose to work with words as a mode of expression. I wanted to ask you about your poetry, where you're coming from when you write it down or are presenting it vocally.
Taylor: Well, I don't know what jazz is. And what most people think of as jazz I don't think that's what it is at all. As a matter of fact I don't think the word has any meaning at all, but that's another conversation...
It seems to me that one of the things that is true with every--oh, for instance--like this Irish writer, William Kennedy. In reading some of his stories about life, his family members in Albany--the thing that struck me, the similarity, and the things that makes human beings who are vital electric, is the way they use language to manifest their live responses to the culture that they are in. So I got that from that. In a way, in its own way, it's like when I was very young I read Langston Hughes' Simple stories and it whetted my appetite for the possibility of using language to move outside of the self.
One of the most important things that happened to me, really--I've always had difficulty with teachers in school. Right after Pearl Harbor I wrote this poem about December 8th--I don't even know why I remember this--and the teacher said, "Oh, that's a very bad poem." Well, I knew that I should write poetry then. If she said it was bad, then it must be okay.
When I was in the Conservatory, there was a Southern woman who taught English the first year that I was there. English--well, English--American language is quite different, actually. She was talking about Tennessee Williams, and she was talking about Streetcar, and she said, 'The language in that play...there are sections of that play that are so good,' she said,'...that I could actually taste it.' And that was one of the most remarkable things that happened to me in the whole four years that I was at the Conservatory. Cause I only had three teachers, really, that were interesting, and all three of them were women. I was sixteen when that was said to me, and I remember of course when Streetcar was on Broadway--I certainly didn't see it, but I did see Talleulah Bankhead do it years later--this was a time when I was in a new environment for me. A new musical community environment, The New England Conservatory [laughs], and whatever that was about. But I was also at that point beginning to construct certain things musically. I was beginning to. And because what was important about this English woman--this English teacher--I wish I could remember her name cause I can see her--and what she gave to me--because she gave it in a not punitive way. Mother always had me reading. Mother spoke French and German and brought Shopenhauer to me when I was eleven years old, but that was something else--that was-- you didn't have a choice there with mother. Boom! That's the way that went. But here was this woman who just said this, and it I heard it. And her emotional dedication to a word--I said, "Wow...that's my dedication to music...you mean it is possible to have that kind of dedication to another art?" So, that.
I never understood how musicians could play music for poets and not read poems. I don't understand musicians who can play for dancers and not know how to dance. I mean, it's very interesting to me, you were talking about your research; well, one of the things--before I put words down, I probably have read a thousand words.
I have a lot of interests. Dance is certainly one. Architecture, particularly structural engineers. I look at basketball. I'm not interested in it though. I love horses, horseracing. I've never seen a horse race. I can remember Sea Biscuit and those things, though. I used to run when I was young. I do all these exercises everyday.
I did write a poem about Nureyev, when I saw him dance. I also wrote a poem about Albert Ayler, too. I think that for me the idea is to--I mean it changes, you know, every ten years or so--but right now I'm going through this whole thing about making these belated discoveries about mother dear. And what that really means is these few years that I have left here to really deal with a certain kind of upward- mobile bourgeoisie nonsense that entrapped a lot of--but anyway, the poetry saved my life, actually.
If you have the opportunity to play for people all in different countries, one of the things you begin to discover is that people are--you can find oppressed people all over the world, therefore somewhere along the road you get the idea that it is certainly not about yourself. Any gift that you have is not about that at all. It's about a force that is about the ungiven, the uncreative. It is about the amorphous, and you are at best merely a vessel. And once you begin to understand that [laughs]--the wonderful thing about it is--I was thinking about it today--that the first time I heard Billie Holiday, I heard it in the room of a member of the family who was not very well thought of, and the other part of the family all liked Bing Crosby. And that was alright, but there is a qualitative difference. So in our small way what we attempt to do is to look and see and receive and become a sponge and attempt to make anything that exists as part of the palette to describe whatever it is we think we want to do. And what you want to do is to be as beautiful and as loving and as all-consuming as possible, so that the statement has many, many different implications, and it has many different levels. The only way to do that, seems to me, is to research.
I think what my mother did give me unquestionably was that--maybe she didn't quite perceive it this way but--it is wonderful to be able to enjoy what it is I do now as opposed to the disciplinary aura that I had to grow up under. Now I do what I want to do because I love doing it, and it rewards me and I've been fortunate in that I've been told that other people have gotten something from what it is. It is possible to do what it is you decide you want to do with your life. For me that has been the thing that has cured whatever despondency, whatever anger, you know...well, that's that.
Funkhouser: You couldn't have been very old when you wrote a poem about Pearl Harbor--so you've been writing from elementary school onward?
Taylor: Well, actually, you know teachers--I ran into a lot of teachers where it was very clear to me that if you didn't do what they told you to do, they would try to stop you from doing anything at all. That's what that teachers do. When I went to the Conservatory, it was the same thing, and boy did I fight with those people up there. Actually, I can tell you when I started writing but that wouldn't be very interesting, cause that was all about romance. And of course that's what it is about, isn't it? But I really started writing in 1962 when I went to Europe for the first time. I was writing letters to this poet, who I was quite taken with at the time. That's when I started writing.
Funkhouser: You were playing before that. Was there a point where the writing and playing began to coincide somehow? I know I've seen you perform and it's chanting, and all sorts of...
Taylor: That's the wonderful thing about maybe never being allowed to get into the business--the music business-- because I was not a very well-behaved person according to the gangsters who control the business. I'm lucky to be alive, really. So what you had to do--and also the fact that what I was doing was considered not very viable. [Laughs] That's a cute word to mean it didn't make any money, or they didn't see how they could make any money. And they would tell you what you were supposed to do. That's the way they are. So, not being malleable that way, the resources that my mother and father gave me, since I didn't have any money--but my father would always give me money. When I wasn't working I always went to see plays on Broadway. Then years later, this woman that I was sort of involved with worked at the Living Theater. So I got a whole new concept, and a whole new thrust of beauty right there, you see. And actually I ran into Baraka around '57. So, what I mean is that one dedication leads to another, especially if it is very important for you to continue to grow, especially when they tell you that "We're not going to allow you to grow in this area." So what does that mean? Meant I had to practice at home. It also meant that I had to look around for other sources of beauty that could aid in what I was doing with the main thing. Then finally, you see, these things mesh, and it takes a while for it to happen. But then, you know, it does.
And so therefore there is no possible way that I can have any regrets about not working, where these other people did. Cause I was always working. I just didn't make any money. [Laughter]
Funkhouser: You said poetry saved your life . . .
Taylor: Yes it did. I had one or two friends that helped. But the work always brought me back. For instance, this work that I'm working on now, which has a lot to do with my mother, actually, and my relationship to her as a property of hers. Unwanted property, it seemed to me, possibly. I mean I have to think of that as a certain reality because of her attempts to kill me at a certain point. Literally. However, the fantastic thing about all of this is that if you survive, then you understand that your parents had parents too. And that must have been a trip. The extraordinary anger that I began to see that was in my family, and resulted in, really, her death at the age of thirty-four, and the death of all people in the family who followed her conception of living, because she was very powerful and very persuasive. And there were at least three people in the family who died of cancer at the age of thirty-four. Given the fact that she had been in silent movies, and that she recited poetry, and that she'd walk into a room and the room would stop--but then she found father, and father was from North Carolina, and he was an agricultural person and she was his dream. She could speak French and German, she knew how to wear clothes, and all of that shit. And then she stopped because we had the only brick house--there were only two brick houses on the block--and pop owned one. She became the lady of the manor. And I became her--so I was tapdancing when I was six. I was entering contests for young virtuosos--I was never a young virtuoso--but she tried to make me--so I was playing Chopin when I was six and all this nonsense. And I was driven. There was no--I was telling someone the other night, I said, 'I've never--I could not be idle'--you had to be doing something. And so of course, she died when I was eleven, twelve--twelve, yeah--and I had a peptic ulcer when I was thirteen. It was just a glorious experience growing up in her house. However, she gave me certain things. She was the eldest of six children, after all; her mother was Cherokee. Her father was never mentioned. Father's father--he had a great deal of problems with him-- he was Kiowa. And all of this I had to discover, and this is the language of--the language of the word is now coming to deal with all of that.
Funkhouser: Is it much different than what you were doing with Chinampas, where you were going back to another set of . . .
Taylor: Well, Chinampas is about those extraordinary Aztecs. You see, the Aztecs, you might say, are my distant relatives too because there is Kiowa and Cherokee. So we're dealing with native americans, and I'm interested in--oh, man, the culture. Like there is an extraordinary Mexican structural engineer named Felix Candello, who has done this restaurant--his most famous work--the only one that I know, actually--is this restaurant that he has constructed outside of Mexico City.
In order to deal with this, it becomes--there is like a difference between therapy, because I've been in therapy-- the last therapist I had was really very much like my father. He ended up in A.A., too. I don't even know whether he's even alive now. When you have the choice to work out your own, or to begin to see into your own emotional mechanisms, and then begin to discover who set them up for you, who gave you these intrapersonal tactics that keep you from being ever-vulnerable--and when you do it through your own experience and maybe you have one friend who does not allow you to get away with certain things--then there's always the whatever we are as people.
Our work is always perhaps more whole than we, and when you really begin to move as a human being then you begin to see the disparity between what is not an abstraction but becomes an emotional force that is akin--it is the same thing as the intellectual perception, which I feel-- cause all of the most amazing poets that I've ever--and when I use the word poet I mean Ben Webster or Billie Holiday, or Maya Pelisetskaya or the incredible Carmen Amaya. You know, these great dancers who when you see them you know that that's a life, and when you look at them they've taken yours. Because you see them and you say, "Jesus, if I ever grow up that's what I'd like to do, that's what I'd like to give."
Funkhouser: It's inside your body, something that enters your body, then . . .
Taylor: A spirit! That force, you know--I realize that my mother had that force. But what she decided not to do with it--and if you have that force and you don't use it, then you die. Because if you kill that force your body follows afterwards. My uncle, her only brother, he could live in the house with us as long as he would not be a musician. And he died of cancer at the age of thirty-four. He gave me drum lessons.
A lot of my rage was really dealing with the hypocrisy of the upwardly mobile middle-class aspirations of certain groups of people that I grew up with. And they all--I mean for instance, I had a cousin who had a beautiful voice, and they convinced her that she was too ugly to sing! [Laughter]
Funkhouser: You feel certain kinship with Aztec and the sensibilities that they developed? There was a group that ran into all kinds of trouble--and what a highly developed sense of spirit...
Taylor: What I am saying is two things: because mother insisted that I do certain things, there was a seed so that when it was left up to me to find certain things, the richness of these other poetical universes I had already had reference to.
Now, I'd rather not talk about my political adventures, beyond saying this: when I was very young, I went to the second Peekskill rally. Paul Robeson was there, [W.E.B.] DuBois was there, and it was in an area that my father's boss lived in. And what happened to me then, and I was thirteen--and the family read the Daily News at that time-- and we were lucky to get out of Peekskill alive. When I got back Monday and I read the Daily News reportage of what they said had happened, then I knew that I had to have other options because that is not what I experienced. And if they were going to say that that's what was happening then I knew that I had to choose another course.
And nothing has happened since, with the exception of those young adults who died at Kent State, those young people who forced this country to stop the Vietnamese massacre. But what happened to those people in twenty years? When the hosannas of democracy blare the loudest, it's when personal options--in terms of choices--become the narrowest. It's at that point that the poet really sees the dimension of the work that is possible.
So right now I'm in a very high state--and this is very interesting since I haven't smoked a cigarette in over a week and I don't know what's happening to me--and I'm feeling extraordinary about all of this. There's a lot--I'm writing a section of this piece today that I've never written anything quite like this before. So I don't know what's going on--except that it feels marvellous--and I can't believe what I'm seeing on television. I can't believe what I'm hearing on the news.
Funkhouser: In "Garden" one thing that begins to emerge from the layers and layers and layers--you invoke some heroic figures from black culture, the lines, "Lines here/have an echo in distant valleys," and then you speak also of "stamping/heredity to a new definition." There is a resonance--however one wants to interpret distant valleys-- taking things to a new place, or transformation in a larger sense, not necessarily a personal sense. You bring in a lot of things. We all know that there room for transformation: what fascinates me with your use of language and form of expression is that it is--in addition to using poetry to make more music, you're saying something and different tensions develop, different almost apocalyptic things come about--so you're there, you're at a certain precipice...
Taylor: The people that I love, I love. The spirits--they're the ones that have changed my life, and the ones that I really--they're here, and it would not have been that way had they not lived. So I always genuflect. I feel that way about certain writers, certain dancers, certain architects, certain women singers, and certain organizers of musical sound. I mean I remember when I saw Carmen Amaya for the first time. And the loveliest thing about it--when they built the national monument--cause she died in this villa in Begur, they asked me to come.
What I am doing is creating a language. A different American language. I feel that. Genet is fascinating because of the intellectual--and it wasn't for him intellectual. Then again, I don't make a separation between intellect and emotion. I think with the great artists that I love there was the same thing. By that I mean they had a structure, technique, and the thing that made the technique and the structure move was their passion. The thing about Le Roi Jones was he's never really had loving emotion.
There's so much destruction that is going on in the world today--all around us--I mean this extraordinary thing with these--did you see where these two eleven year old children killed another fourteen year old--and this business--this Crime Bill? They don't seem to understand that they can build all the fuckin' prisons they want--if we don't get to the root of the violence that is in the air here, then it's all for naught. I mean, of course, Schwarzenegger is connected with the Kennedys, so he can make all of these violent films that he wants to, they're box-office and that's acceptable. Some of the television skits for children on tv: it's just not human! So, now, what do we do? Without becoming literal but using imagination and creating metaphors that confound the senses, and that confound those who are not de-tuned? To disorganize one's whole apparatus in facing all of this, then it's possible to surprise yourself.
Obviously I'm fascinated with words. And without thinking of rhythm in language, but knowing that it's there, and reading a lot of different people, finally what happens is the same thing that happens when we are involved in music. I listen to a lot of different music. For instance, today I listened to Chinese Classical music--which I really didn't dig too much, but I'll listen to it again--I listened to Islamic chants that really knocked me the fuck out. And just single voices. I listened to Duke Ellington's Orchestra circa 1945-- there was one piece that was just amazing. I listened to Victoria de los Angeles singing Purcell's "Diedere and something or other..." and then I listened to Gary Grafman playing the first movement of the Brahms piano concerto. Brahms, boy I tell you--then I listened to Leonard T. Price singing the last movement of Richard Strauss' "Solome." Boy--what what a-- wheeew--boy, that guy--I have to go to see that guy. A lot of shit was up. And then, of course, of course--I listen every day to something by Ligeti. Today I heard "Ramifications" and this choral piece, and "Atmospheres." Then I listen every day to [he chuckles] Marvin Gaye, of course. Then I put on Sarah Vaughn, then I put on Xenakis--oh, this fucking guy--this orchestra piece, and then I'm--god, I mean I practiced the piano four hours today. I spent two hours completing another section of this poem this morning. I cooked, I mopped all the floors in this house, and I've done all this stuff. And not one cigarette I can't understand it. No champagne, anything...
But I'm onto something. I really want to surprise Min [Tanaka, with whom Taylor performed in NYC, 17 September, 1994]. We'll surprise each other. I've been listening to this Kathleen Battle, and this guy who's the head of the Met Orchestra, he was interviewed by Charlie Rose the other day, and he said a couple of things, but anyway he's playing with Battle--she's singing Shubert leider--and she [he chuckles] no, it was Schumann--I don't know--Shubert, Schumann, whatever. Any way, boy, boy, o boy, wow-- mmm-mmm-mm. Such music. Then I listened to Billie Holiday singing, and I started laughing because I'm having such a good time. I'm not seeing many people. I crossed out a whole bunch of people--I do think about them--and you know I have all of these things that I've been doing.
After you do this a number of times, you develop a kind of spiritual touch. For instance, I will go into a bookstore and I will just stand there and I will pick out a book, manytimes, just because I like the way it looks. Then I might not read it for about five years then when I pick it up I know then why I bought it. And so, there are all of these different kinds of self-indulgences, perhaps, but anyway these great pleasures.
Funkhouser: So your expressiveness comes from these various architectures, histories, musicians--Marvin Gaye!
Taylor: Yeah, it comes out of all of that. All of these people. Marvin was an extraordinarily gifted man. All of these people that I'm involved in are. So you can't go wrong. I mean Aretha Franklin, boy, that was so great at one point. Oh! I listened to Etta Jones today, she was wonderful! I mean, you know, all of these...
Funkhouser: Did you talk with [Kamau] Brathwaite about Aretha when you saw him? He raves about "Pullin'" in BARABAJAN POEMS.
Taylor: "Pull 'em"?
Funkhouser: "Pullin'". It's some kind of train song.
Taylor: Well, you know, he--as a matter of fact--I was downstairs when he was reading [at the Naropa Institute, Summer 1994], cause I was trying to get my nerves together. I mean what are you going to do when you're reading with all these great people? What do you do? I don't do anything. And all of a sudden [Anne] Waldman comes running down and she says, "You got to go upstairs, he's [Brathwaite] just reading a poem about you." I said, "I don't want to hear it--I mean I have to live with me, I don't need to know..." Then when I got up there he was talking about Billie Holiday, so that was great. That I can understand.
Oh, here's another view of this building (We are looking at a book of [Salvador] Calatravas buildings).
Funkhouser: It is incredible. Just solid. You could never push that down: it probably won't crumble in an earthquake!
Taylor: Well, they know about that. Wright built that hotel there, and in the great earthquake that they had, when--in the twenties? Wright's building did not fall, and they--I think it's criminal what they've done to Wright's Guggenheim Museum. I can't bear to look at it. I mean, they've put this new addition. Well, I'll have to get over there, I suppose, and look at it. But the Japanese, they are-- the main thing about the Japanese is that they have utilized their cultural longevity to regenerate themselves in a way that spirits must regenerate in order to continue. On a literal level, all the techniques of American production and German production the Japanese have mastered. The other reason I think the Japanese have become the economic power that they've become is because we weren't given the correct information after the second world war. MacArthur and all of those people told us that they would not get rid of the emperor because he was a spiritual leader. Well, of course he was. But the other thing that they didn't tell us is that Hirohito owned fifty percent of all the Japanese industries. You're not going to...
Then, of course, the other shit is that they were not allowed to indulge in the most unproductive kind of thing after the second world war, which is to make arms. So they took all of that and built this extraordinary infrastructure. I mean, the Japanese trains, to ride on a Bullet train--Amtrak is ridiculous! To ride on the French supertrain--Amtrak is ridiculous. Before we talk even, about the Germans, the infrastructure here in this country is falling down. I mean, every time I go over the Manhattan Bridge I'm always grateful that the greatest splash in the world didn't happen, the bridge didn't collapse. You will see, now, that the Manhattan Bridge--when I moved here originally, you could go over the top of the bridge. You could see this extraordinary view of lower Manhattan, with all those Wall Street buildings. But, more important than that is what happened in the American aspiration, with all of that business--although it's not all that. What do you think of the Sardabs that are in, when you think of Harmachis and you think of all of those monuments in Giza, and how they were constructed? We don't know.
But you know, there are other forces, and, you see, with the emergence of technology, science and technology, there has been the defacement of all that is spiritual. And we must... [laughs, pausing] So the point is that now when I go over the Manhattan Bridge and I'm looking at this, where I used to run, and had this extraordinary view before: now we're down here, and they're building this shit, and over here you can see where they're taking part of the roadway off. And, you know, it's all falling. When I went by the Williamsburg Bridge--they've got all of that shit going on. All of it is going to fall into the river and there's going to be a great flood. And this building is not tall enough!
Oh, and the other thing that I should show--that you've got to see--well, you've been to Germany, haven't you?
Funkhouser: Actually, I haven't . . .
Taylor: Well, do you know about those cable-stay box- girder bridges? Oh, you must see them. They're the most extraordinary. You know, the Golden Gate and George Washington--that's okay--but if you have not seen a cable stay box-girder bridge--where are those books? Those are the most extraordinary bridges, and they're cheaper and they're stronger. The forces of liberation during the second world war destroyed all the German suspension bridges, and all of the beam bridges. So they came up with another concept.
For me it's more interesting, in a way, to look at the construction of bridges than it is to look at musical scores. Here we are. Here are the cable-stayed bridges. The first ones, of course, were done in Germany. The Germans also came up with the heliacal bridges, which the first one was done in 1953. And these were all over this river. I think it's the Rhine, too. It's an extraordinary. They come in two different kinds, there's the fan shape and the harp shape, you see. When you go into Cologne by train you'll see the most extraordinary. It looks like a huge piece of sculpture.
But then, oh, boy, I wish I had that book--I don't know--I lost it. The Calatravas bridges. Now, Caletravas bridges--and his teacher, Christian Mann--he's got another conception of bridge building now, and roadways that we just--we just don't understand that shit here. Give us time, however.
Anyway, some of those pictures, they're incredible...
Funkhouser: You said you're are doing a performance with Min Tanaka in two weeks, at the Guggenheim?
Taylor: Yeah, two weeks from tonight as a matter of fact. Down on Mercer Street. He's going to dance. We might both dance, actually, even though I have this support thing here [on his lower leg/ankle], I'm going to do something. I am working it all out.
Funkhouser: You've worked a lot with dancers. Another type of movement, which relates to both your music and poetry.
Taylor: Well, you know, I think Western musicians, fine art musicians, what they call fine art musicians--European fine art--they're the only ones who don't dance. Every other--of course these certain stupid Americans--but you'll find in all other cultures, like third world cultures, musicians dance. What they don't understand is when you--when you are playing, whether you know it or not, you're dancing. I always got great enjoyment watching great musicians dance when they play. I mean, to watch Elvin Jones or Art Blakey. Horace Silver, Ellington had a way--and Billie Holiday--those movements. Or Betty Carter.
Funkhouser: I am interested in your connection with poets. What were your connections with Robert Duncan, and Charles Olson, and Robert Creeley, who are mentioned on the liner notes to Nerfertiti?
Taylor: Those were the names that LeRoi Jones gave me thirty years ago, that I should read.
Funkhouser: And so you read them?
Taylor: Oh, yes. Yeah.
Funkhouser: Duncan's work, for instance. Some was written for dancers...
Taylor: Wasn't Isadora his cousin or something? Yeah, I think she was his cousin. That wouldn't mean--yeah, I like Duncan very much.
Funkhouser: His writing I see working in cyclical and mythological projection in the same way that your writing does. I was wondering about the influences, though I know how difficult it is to talk about writing . . .
Taylor: I would say that it is difficult. Do you know Creeley's book The Island? Well, I read that. The thing-- Olson, Charles Olson might be easier to talk about, or Bob Kaufman, but the thing that allows me to enter into what they do is the feeling that I get. It's the way they use words. It's the phraseology that they use, much the way the defining characteristic of men like Charlie Parker or Johnny Hodges is the phraseology. And in the phraseology would be the horizontal as well as the vertical. In other words, the harmony and the melodic. Well, I also see that in word structures. One of the things I've found maybe odd about Quincy Troupe was that--and you used the phrase before, the tensions were always the same, the ideation was always bracketed in a particular kind of language with no abatement. Always the same kind of thing. And I find that true in a lot of rap that I hear. But then again I don't even want to talk about that kind of necessarily--I mean that's something else.
I'm very moved by the Kabuki theatre, and the usage of the voice there, and the movement there. And, of course, the Butoh dancing comes, is the modern development perhaps of the Kabuki.
Yeah, Olson, and particularly Duncan and Creeley--their syntactical structure was the thing that got, that I really liked. And I hear--Roi at a certain point had that too, had that. His of course was different. Ishmael [Reed] had it at a certain point but I wasn't too interested in it with him. In other words, what I'm talking about is the music, the music, the language. Like Genet has a language that is fascinating because it is so multi-faceted. It's real but it's not unreal, and what is unreal to us is real to him, and what is real to us is unreal to him. And yet when you really follow what Edmund White [Genet's biographer] is talking about, he's like making this man come alive by in a way not denuding of his magic, but making his magic more accesible to others. It's a dense book. It's also history of Cocteau, and of course that Sartre, and [Simone] de Beauvoir. And there was an Algerian poet who wrote a very small book about Genet, about a hundred pages, and that book was fascinating. When I asked Allen [Ginsberg] about this Genet book, he said, "Well, yes, I looked at it." He said, "Burroughs read it." He said he looked in it to see if his name was mentioned. Indeed. [Laughs] No, he would not be mentioned. As a matter of fact, Genet was asked by this Algerian, what did he think of Tennessee Williams? And he said, "I never think of Tennessee Williams."
Funkhouser: There was one place where Baraka wrote about your music as having "an emphasis on total area...giving it means to evolve, to move as an intelligently shaped musical concept" which is an idea seemingly relates to Olson's concept of...
Taylor: Projective Verse? Hmm...
Funkhouser: A movement towards form via activity--or activity via form--whichever way it works, though it's probably form through activity...
Taylor: Form through activity, or, the function determines the form, or is it the form that determines the function? I think it's the function that determines the form. So, yeah, through activity, yes.
Funkhouser: And total area. Olson used the page, and there's more to that connection when I think of your writing. The way that historical concepts, those "distant valleys," and mythology, your present--present moment, past moment and future projected. It seems like since you know Duncan and Olson that maybe...
Taylor: Oh, certainly they had an influence on me, sure. Also Mike McClure.
Funkhouser: His work with forms, shapes?
Taylor: Yeah. But, I don't really concern myself too much about form. And the reason I don't is because I know it's there. I'm always surprised to find out how it's there. One of the things about Cormac McCarthy that I found interesting, and I had started doing something very similar. Because the awareness of the intricacies of what you do become plainer the longer you do it. Like Arthur Miller said the other night, that he was concerned with form. He said, "All writers are concerned with form, daddle daddle dah." I thought to myself, that's why you're such a dull ass.
But anyhow, what McCarthy does in Blood Meridian, he might give you the name of the chapter, but he lists all the events that are going to happen. And I realized that, for instance in this word thing that I'm working on now: a month ago I started writing certain things down that I was going to deal with in this work. And this morning I finished another section. What was really interesting to me was that I read four other sections of this work and I saw the relatedness in terms of this material. That's enough. I said, "yeah, well, I guess if I was pressed to, I could get into the unifying links with all of this stuff." But that's not fun. But it's there. And what I mean by it is, after you do it enough, you make a commitment to the magic. Then the magic asserts itself in ways that you don't have to worry about, because it is incorruptible. That's the whole thing. Integrity must stand. If it stands, then you don't have to worry about other things. You do your work and then it comes. Because that is the truth. That is the beauty. That is the force. However, you just made me realize something. I am not conscious of form but yet you cannot not be conscious of it. Because you look at the page. And the page let's you know certain things. So, of course, one of the things that I'm thinking about is how the next part of this poem is going to be different in terms of its architecture.
I mean, what are they doing, talking about form? I mean, you look at the rivers and the mountains. The forests that they haven't destroyed yet. Look at these rocks. I could have showed you a rock in that place across the street.
Funkhouser: I saw it. Gigantic...
Taylor: Yes. It's extraordinary. Can you imagine all the spirits that are coming out of that rock? And we are, after all, just animals and we are a part of nature. We are a part of, and we are probably the quickest in terms of duration of life. We are the transitory poems. The mountains will be here, and perhaps we will be part of a mountain. You know there are certain West African tribes that believe that life is just a part of death, and when the chemical composition changes--some of them believe that they may become a mountain stream, star, whatever. I think that we definitely go back to the earth. Which is interesting. It's called "mother earth." The Portugese say, "Portentosa", that's Africa. And actually, the oldest bi-ped was found in the Sahara, she was a woman species. But then again that's not really strange when you understand that salps, fish--it is the women who give birth, and without male--and the women, as they mature, they become male and that's how the unite. This is not acceptable by a Christian--but they don't know anything.
The other thing that works for me--I'm always amazed--I was watching some writer, and he said, "Yes, I write five hours every day." And I said to myself, "my, that's really disciplined." Though I don't think there's any one way of going about it. You may not write, but you may read. But you are always thinking about the object of what you're thinking about. So, I found this morning that I put out all of this information in front of me and I said, "what's gonna happen?" And it happened. And I'm already now thinking about the next part of this piece.
Funkhouser: Going back to the influences: were there people you read subsequent to Duncan, Olson, McClure, and the others who had an early impact on you?
Taylor: Oh, yes. Garcia Lorca. Kaufman. I knew--I had the--I spent time with Kaufman. One night, boy, I was at this building that was on First Avenue and First Street. It was a sort of triangular shaped building, and Ginsberg, [Peter] Orlovsky, Le Roi Jones and Kaufman and myself were in this room. And I just stood there. And there was no question in my mind who the force was in that room.
He was like a spirit. I met Kaufman through these two women that I was very close to at one point, and they had known Kaufman before. So finally when I met him, he came to the Five Spot one night I was working there, said "You've gotta come with me after you finish work." I said, "Look, Bob, I started working at quarter after nine, I won't be finished until four o'clock, I can't do this." So he said, "Yes you will," and he came at four o'clock and he took me over to what is now Soho, and he read poems to me until about quarter after one the next afternoon. And I remember walking out of that loft completely energized--I hate that word--but completely transformed. He was also, probably, the most extraordinary looking poet of his time, too. I mean that helped, of course. He was extraordinary. When he was in his last periods, and he didn't speak, I was in Frisco, and I saw him. He just came up to me and said [with a beckoning motion] like this, and we went and had coffee. And this happened twice. We went into coffee shops. And we just sat there. But I was very fortunate, I met [Jack] Kerouac in a same kind of way. Before On the Road.
You see, the trick about all of this shit is, if you're fortunate enough to have longevity, then you may get certain kudus that you're not really responsible for. Cause I don't know, really, who started the Beat movement. I have my own feelings about it, cause I heard--I know what Kaufman was about. That shit--what he was doing there--the nature of the language. And this is all happening when Norman Mailer is supposed to be the great American writer. I prefered Bill Styron, personally--well, the first Styron book Lie Down in Darkness, that one.
There's a fantastic poet, a black guy that's dead now, he wrote Harlem Gallery, Melvin Tolson. Do you know him? I loved Audre Lorde. I thought Audre Lorde was extraordinary. The last time I was staying in Berlin, I heard that there was this woman's bookstore that Audre--Audre, when she was having cancer, she was going to Berlin--I heard that she went into this woman's bookstore and that she was quite well known. So I go in there, I'm standing there ten seconds and this woman walks up to me and says, "We don't serve men in this bookstore." And I said, "You don't?" Well, I had certain words for that lady and I would never be welcome back there again. But the idea of this shit is so ridiculous. Well, I won't get into that. I thought Cancer Journals was an extraordinarily courageous book. Audre Lorde, that stuff that she wrote, man, that's the kind of stuff that really--she's another one of my favorites. It just rivets you, the truth of it, the pain of it. But the pain is not the pain the way people think, it's the glory of the ability to be able to penetrate that deeply that make you--I mean it's frightening to certain people! [Laughter]
One of the greatest things that I'll never forget, in 1962, I was working in this club on Bleecker Street, the three of us, Jimmy Lyons and Sunny Murray, and myself. We were working, and this guy came in--he was gonna--we would play one set and he would play one set, and he was playing the guitar. I'll never forget, it was on a Saturday night. He started playing and people just laughed and they thought it was great. And we went up and started playing and people knocked over tables, knocked over their drinks getting out of the club the minute we started playing. And I said, "Well, that's okay." Anyway, it turns out that this guy, within two years this guy was Tiny Tim. And they loved it. And whatever it was we were doing, it really did not please them very much. [Laughs] I love it!
Funkhouser: Who else do you think of as important artists?
Taylor: William Dixon, Bill Dixon is one musician. I think Anthony Braxton is, I think that's really something. I think that--oh, I think Calatravas, and you know the guy--the Englishman who did the Hong Kong Bank? What's his name? When that bank was completed in '76, that was the most technically advanced building at that time built. He's got a building now either in Japan or Spain which I didn't like too much. I think the Butoh dancers, Min is. I'm not happy--I mean, Arthur Mitchell got a MacArthur. I don't' know why. Bill D. Jones got an Arthur, I can understand that somewhat. Betty Carter I think is a great artist.
Funkhouser: There's not a lot of poetry, or your writing, that is out in print.
Taylor: Well, you know what Anne [Waldman] said to me, she said, "Why aren't you published?" So I didn't answer her. The reason I am not published is because the reason I don't go record companies and ask them could I record for them. Cause I've gone through them, I don't do that anymore. If somebody wants to publish you, then they'll publish you. It's not what I'm writing for. I'm writing cause I love to write. And, of course, when the time is right, I suppose--I just hope I have something that'll be of interest to someone other than myself, that's all. I just do it because I love to do it.
Funkhouser: Somewhere you talk about writing, or the artist's responsibility is to communicate with themself...
Taylor: I don't think that's all but I think that's a beginning. And when the artist gets a chance to communicate with others then you begin to find out something else. You begin to find out what it really means to have an audience be in front of you and not to even hear them breathe. Then you really know something else about what is happening.
Its already happened. It's passed. That's when it goes beyond yourself. That's when you're really serving. You're serving those group of people who have--you see, people are not there by accident. People who come to certain things have prepared themselves to do that. It is worth preparing yourself to be prepared to serve something, because art did not begin with us. It was here before we got here. We are just, perhaps, hopefully adding a little something to it. But there are whole groups of people who are not artists but who love it. So they become lovers of art. In that sense they become art lovers, they become artists. And they know when bullshit is happening. So if they come, and you're doing your little schtickt--whatever it is--and you don't even hear them breathe, then that's when you know you've achieved another state beyond. That's what you've been preparing yourself for.
And it really doesn't matter. Sometimes when they hoot-- that can be played within a wonderful way.
Funkhouser: Not to get into anything too complicated, or semantic, but how much have you considered poetry as form seperate from music? I see the structural similarities...
Taylor: It's obvious, but I'm not interested in separations. What I mean by that is what I'm discovering and becoming aware of every day now is that the similarity, although the nature of the material is different, the process of building the structure are very similar. This is a recognition of something that was gradual. And I rather delight in it now, because I know, thus far, how to practice. Practice is very important to me, musically. In other words, practice is-- forget that--the preparation, the spiritual--the preparation is to enter the realm of the spirits. And it is not practice because it is voluntary. It is. Practice has to do with discipline.
Discipline, in this society, to me, has to do with sin. It doesn't have anything to do with joy. The expression of life is confused as a result of sin. Whatever my mother's intent was, she insisted that six days of the week I practice. And I had to practice. And I mean practice. On Sunday she said, "You can do what you want." That's when the organization of my music began, was when she wasn't looking. Hopefully she wasn't listening. Factories have to do with treating people like they are machine, objects or machine. The whole idea of discipline is in the Army. It's like "Onward Christian Soldiers." And we're still doing the same thing.
This wonderful English writer said something about what he learned from--he came from the upper classes in England--when he went to Africa to study those so-called primitive societies, he said that, "in the West we think of freedom as a manifestation of our ability to compete. But it never entered into our minds what a certain primitive people knew. That the greatest human achievement was cooperation." And it's true. I mean, I'm a very competitive person. I was a very competitive person, cause that's the way I was brought up. But then, gradually, I had to decide that I was doing it because I really loved doing it, and it had only to do with the fact that it was the one thing in my life that I could be assured of, that would gratify my senses. And you move to the next stage when you recognize the reason the senses were gratified was because certain great spirits before you allowed you to see the potential of developing your senses to that level where you could obtain that sense of gratification. Then the next level is you begin to see that that's a responsibility you didn't even know you were going to be confronted with. That's when the fun begins. Or the tragedy. Because, after all, they also know the wealth of what it is you have, and they offer you things to make you be more in-tuned with their abilities to sell it. [Laughs]
Funkhouser: What about the idea of de-personalization. In your poetry, the writing that I've seen, it's not an "I". There's no I. In conjunction with the idea of sound being within the whole body so everything comes from within the body yet there is a clan. There's an idea of a process of developing a group of people you're speaking with or who tune in to what you're doing. Your writing is very personal, extended outward and becomes this cosmological bridge, meeting, a communion through the elements. You talk about spirits, but there's more than that...
Taylor: Well, there are sources of investigation. And what you're trying to do--the fun is to see what you finally learn from these, and how you--what is the end product of all this investigation, in terms of your own statement. Because, you know, the statement becomes more finite as it grows, if it's growing.
When I do it there are certain procedures that go down. For instance, there are the physical exercises which must be done, and the wonderful breakfast. Breakfast comes after the first stuff--no push-ups, no sit-ups. There are physical things that I do. I tried push-ups, it was too much labor involved. I didn't like it. Gravity is one thing, but--what I mean is, the wonder of all of this--and this is where the people people come in, and the different cultures come in. When you attempt to get involved with what is magical for them, even if you don't agree with it. But just to do it, and then to find out what the exposure means to you and to think about it and then to see gradually how it affects what it is that you do.
The writing is the last thing that happens.
What I'm also learning is, for instance, in listening to these august poets read, see, it was fascinating for me to try to imagine the dramaturgy that was going through their heads as they were reading. Like Anne [Waldman], for instance, had this friend of yours, Steven Taylor. He plays the violin or something? Well she had two of them, and she was singing, or something. I said to myself, "Well, now, well, hmm, that's an evening's work." I'm thinking, mmm, the two other times I heard Anne read, it was not that. Some people I would consider, but with her I had to digest. So all of this is wonderfully exciting because it's the unexpected. It had an effect. Because even though I was downstairs, I was right. A lot of times, when I listen to all of this music that I have scattered all around here I don't have the luxury of being able to--well, I suppose I could--I don't sit down and listen to them. Sometimes. Marvin Gaye is so powerful that when I'm doing my exercises, the rhythm that I have my exercises in are altered by what he does, so I don't play him when I'm exercising. If I want to dance, I'll play him. When I listen to Monk I laugh a lot, because that's so extraordinary, that's what that is.
Listening to music, I have to do things. I have things, like I love to wash socks, cause I love warm water on my fingers. If I really feel pissed about something, then I'll wash clothes. So, I learn from what's happening in music by keeping busy doing something else. Until, of course, my turn to do the music--and then I've discovered what I've learned. But that is also related to when I was really attempting to be a social person. Which meant I was going to--it hasn't been that long ago--going to bars with a lot of different people, and then somebody would say something that would make me very angry, and a day and a half later, when I'm practicing then I'd understand what made me angry about it, and what there was to do about it.
What is happening now is I'm beginning to understand what I do, and some of the effect that it has on other people that I'm not happy with in retrospect. So I'm doing this kind of self-examination. But, you know, in a nice way, a comfortable way. I'm also having my own nunnery. I'm deliberately not--Aretha Franklin made this wonderful record, with extraordinary piano, called Brand New Me. That's what I'm working on.
The whole thing is, the body is always changing. The cells in the body are always changing. When I look at a man like [Bob] Dole, for instance, he was leaving with his cronies--one of those official buildings in Washington--and the Crime Bill, supposedly, was just passed. One of the things he said, but he was looking away from the cameras, and he was walking away, he said, "And we feel safer already." [Laughs] Now that kind of cynicism is, that mindset, that kind of human shit is-- I don't want to touch that, I don't even want to see that. I find it in a lot of places and I don't think I need that. I've been around that enough. And you pick up those little devices and you know how to use them. Because the situations are just to be played upon, they're not to be made anything magical. It's just a game.
Funkhouser: Obviously, you're constructing something entirely different. You're using words, and improvising for a series of ideas and themes much differently than some senator.
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